Machen uns Pornos kaputt? | 13 Fragen | UNBUBBLE

, Youtube / ZDFunbubble, 06-01-2026, Watch the movie

    00:02

I think pornography does a very quiet kind of damage. Until I was 20 years old, I couldn't climax during sex. It's great when people are so satisfied through solo sexuality that they aren't dependent on others. A man jerking off alone in his room is a sad figure in itself. Let's be honest—or rather, hand on your crotch—how often do you watch porn? And when you do watch porn, do you enjoy it, do you learn something, or do you find it problematic?



00:43

And why is there straw lying around anyway? The fact is, almost all men in Germany and about half of all women watch porn regularly. And that is a problem, some say. Porn makes society worse because it kills our imagination. Young men are shaped by pornography. It determines their expectations for their sex lives. That's bad for them and bad for the women they encounter. Quitting porn was one of the hardest challenges I've ever overcome.



01:10

Hypocritical, others say, as if porn is to blame for everything now. We only ever talk about the dangers of porn, but it's also worth taking a look at the potential. Yes, I've been watching real porn since I was 16, and it has definitely enriched my sex life. Porn doesn't ruin us; it is diverse and can also be empowering. What do you think? Do you believe porn is fundamentally evil or actually a pretty good thing? Let us know in the



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comments. 13 Questions, here comes question number 1, it goes to Jona. Do you watch porn? Yeah, yeah, I definitely watch porn. What kind? Oh, all sorts of things, really. I don't have a specific category. It can be anything from romantic porn that goes a bit deeper, to threesomes, foursomes—everything's in there. And why do you watch it? Well, just to stimulate your imagination a bit, and of course to relax. I mean, it's no secret that when you masturbate or satisfy



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yourself, it can be a form of relaxation. It's not like I resort to porn every single day. I also have fantasies that I can act out on my own. But yeah, just for relaxation, and also to learn something, of course, because I believe—and have learned from experience—that porn has definitely enriched my sex life. Paula, can you relate? No, I would immediately argue against that. I think it actually doesn't stimulate the imagination. It's a shortcut. You just adopt someone else's fantasies and basically don't have to put any effort into the consumption. That's why I think porn destroys the imagination rather than anything else. But that also means you don't watch porn. Never. No, professionally yes, but it bores me. Gabi, so you're on the opposite side of Paula, logically. You don't just watch porn, you actually make it. And of course, the question is always in the room when you enter,



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how do you become a porn performer? I don't know how people become porn performers; I just know how I became one. Back then, my first sex job was escorting, and I found it exciting to do something a bit outside the norm. Yeah, and then, I don't know, I met people from the porn industry, already had contacts I felt comfortable with. And how was your first shoot? For me, it felt so natural that in that moment



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I somehow knew like, "Wow, okay, I think you really like this, you should keep doing it." Jeremy, what about you? You used to watch porn, but you don't anymore. Why not? Yeah, well, I noticed that it just wasn't good for me personally. I think many young men can relate to this. I would jack off, and afterward, I just felt incredibly shitty. So I said, "Okay, I'm going to try to quit." Then I tried for the first time, failed, and then failed again. I started and failed five times. Once I managed for half a year, and then on my six-month anniversary, I thought, "Okay, just for one day, you can." Then I started again. And now, I've been porn-free for 1,050 days, and I'm happier than ever. I don't think it's solely because of that, but it definitely plays a part. And I find it super fascinating that on the opposing side, two out of three people make money



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from porn. I think that's an interesting realization about the other side. You both make money from pornography. Actually, no. I do OnlyFans, but okay, what exactly I do there, I won't reveal now, but... But that is also sex work. Pardon? That is also sex work. Yes, but right now we're talking about porn. If you define it, you're making money from sex somehow. Why is that interesting? I find it interesting when someone speaks up for something but profits from it themselves, because I don't think that's the case for the three of us. Standing here, for example, will give you a lot of attention, and many people will watch your porn. So the question is to what extent you are doing this for selfish reasons. I don't argue for porn because I make money from it. I'm only involved in porn because I like it. I don't depend on it; I could be anywhere I want. I will be where I feel good and where I think my being there makes a difference. That's how it is. If I didn't make money, it wouldn't matter either. But I actively reject that accusation. I think that's a fair point, but you're still the 0.001 percent. Yes, which is why we will definitely talk about capitalism as well, because that's an important point. But tell us briefly again, what exactly was problematic for you? I think many people are thinking right now, "What? Why porn-free for 1,000 days?" I don't know, I just didn't consume it in a healthy way. I would sit at home, swipe through porn for an hour, an hour and a half, like TikTok—just cumshot, next cumshot, like that. And I found that to be such an unnatural state, just as you described it earlier, interestingly enough. I found it to be such an unnatural state that it didn't feel healthy, so I said, "Screw it, I'm going to try now." Okay, we will talk about the positive sides too, but let's stick to the problematic



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side for now. Madita, can you understand why it's a problem for him? Sure, everyone has an individual relationship with this medium, just like with most media. You just mentioned TikTok. Some people have a very unhealthy consumption of it. Others handle it well and get a lot out of it. But I think the bad feelings you're describing don't just have to do with the individual, but also with society teaching us that we should feel guilty, that it's stigmatized. This "post-nut clarity" you just described—there's a term for it because it's so widespread. And that has a lot to do with the fact that we don't understand how sexual fantasies work, and that... Can you explain to me again what post-nut clarity is? It's basically the clarity that comes after an orgasm, after ejaculating, if you wanted to translate it literally. Meaning, I watched a porn, masturbated, came,



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I exit the state of arousal, the porn is still running, I look at it and think, "Oh god, something's wrong with me, I'm the only perverse person who finds this arousing." And in my opinion, that is closely linked to the fact that we don't talk about how sexual fantasies work—namely, that they don't have to have anything to do with sexual desires, and that they are very often norm-violating, violent, don't fit our self-image, aren't politically correct, and arouse us precisely because of that. Paula can go next, but Jeremy can reply directly since it was about you. I think that's a fascinating perspective. You're basically saying, "Okay, humans somehow have the urge to watch things they might perceive as immoral or definitely contrary to themselves." But I don't agree with you. I believe humans have many urges that shouldn't be acted out at all. For example, if I have an argument with a friend of mine, I might feel the urge to punch him in the face, but I don't do it. I think it's super important to express oneself sexually, but I believe that porn is precisely not the way to express oneself sexually when you're sitting at home in the dark like that, I think. That has nothing to do with sexuality. Not much, at least. And I totally agree with you, it also has nothing to do with the magic of being human—namely, the absolute spectrum of emotions. I actually think that porn consumption,



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or that miserable feeling you have afterward, has nothing to do with society saying, "Oh god, shame on you." Instead, what I believe causes the truly miserable feelings is the addictive behavior, which you can definitely feel. And it is scientifically proven that porn stimulates the reward center much, much more strongly than many other drugs we have, and can even be more potent than cocaine. So we have a real problem here that actually damages the brain as well. We know that the gray matter in the brain shrinks, the frontal cortex dulls, and that cannot be desirable. But it's good that we have an expert here. You work with patients—male and female, it must be said—who have to deal with this issue. What do you encounter in your practice? What kind of cases, for example? Yes, I think when we discuss this, we also have to talk about age. Personally, I am a child



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and youth specialist, and I treat kids up to 21 years old. And what you say is true, Paula. We have good research evidence that pornography actually affects brain centers, massively activating reward and appetence, so to speak. And porn is usually extreme; increasingly complicated and even harder pornographic content, high-tech sex toys, and so on, lead to ever-higher arousal. However, in terms of brain physiology, this simultaneously means that normal sexual stimuli—"normal" in quotation marks—no longer lead to any arousal at all. I then see patients who tell me at just 16 years old that a normal romance scene doesn't arouse them at all, and they can't even get an orgasm from it anymore. It only works with pornography. And that is basically a loss of libido in actual relationships, so to speak. And that is something that worries me. And in your experience, or according to the data, is this something that catches up with everyone at some point if they watch too much porn?



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I don't think so, because we know this about addiction in general: there are simply people who don't become alcoholics. Yes, just like that. And it's exactly the same with behavioral addictions. But what we do know—and this is why I fight for the young people I work with—is that we must not look at this solely through adult eyes. Adults usually have a drawer full of real sexual experiences; kids don't have that. And they think this is normal, this is the idealization, and this is the standard I have to deliver. And because you asked about patients, I also have young women coming to me who are completely confused the first time, sitting there asking, "Do I actually have to do what my partner"—or whoever—"imagines? Is that normal, is that part of it?" Simply because they have no baseline for what is normal. In the context of teenagers, can you understand that this can be problematic?



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He had good experiences. I can definitely understand that it can be problematic. I can only speak from my own experience. For me, it was like this: the first time I came into contact with porn was around 13 or 14 during class, because someone in computer class wanted to be the cool guy and always turned on porn. I started watching it properly around 15 or 16, and I didn't have my first time until I was 18. They don't call it a "late bloomer" anymore, but that's how it was. I learned a lot, lot from it. For example, there's always this stupid joke that the first time you have sex, you usually don't know which opening to go into. People always make fun of women and men about their first time, saying they're going to miss and hit the wrong hole and stuff. I didn't have those issues at all during my first time. I still had the excitement, I still had the fantasies, and I was able to act out a lot, lot, lot during my first time, which I don't think I would have done if I hadn't watched porn. Briefly—you can go next, Paula, but I want to ask you again. Do you also see it as problematic, or do you say, "Eh, it's blown out of proportion"? Well, it's very important to me that we talk about helping young people contextualize this content. However, numerous surveys also show that most young people manage this very well and can distinguish between reality and pornographic fiction. The actual core problem I see is that we simply don't provide them with sexual education that answers their questions—the ones you just mentioned. It's never about pleasure in biology class or anywhere else; it's never about practices, it's not about what an orgasm looks like or sounds like. There is a huge thirst for knowledge and also a longing for images. What does sex look like? How does it work? We don't give them that, and



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therefore force porn into the role of the educator. And porn, of course, is not made for that. I think it's catastrophic when children get their sex education through porn. I would prefer someone saying, "Hey, I'm doing this for the first time. Which hole should I actually go into?" rather than saying, "Okay, they did it this way in the movie, so I'll do it." Yeah, that's... Thomas is still standing all the way in the back, though. Apparently, you weren't convinced that better education would lead to fewer patients. Simply because of that—not because of that—because I see so many who are completely analogly, sexually untouched, who have never had a partnership, who satisfy themselves sexually with pornography and see no need anymore to approach anyone. I see many teenagers, young adults, for whom relationships have become far too complicated because they require much more effort. In the past, sexuality also involved entering into a relationship, building bonds,



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and finding out together what you both like, and that had to be navigated. That simply doesn't happen anymore in this context. Gabi, the ability to bond is disrupted by porn, Thomas said. Do you agree? No, the ability to bond is something so fundamental, which... My ability to bond was disrupted long before I even knew what porn was or before I ever consumed porn. My ability to bond grew with my family, with my relationships with my parents, and how healthily that was supported. And then, I wouldn't dispute at all that porn as a medium has addictive potential, absolutely. But I believe that when we act out an addiction, to me, that is not the cause of the problem—it's a symptom of something deeper. And I think it's worth talking about that, and not blaming the medium or the drug itself, even if I'm not saying porn is a drug. The availability



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of the drug might have an impact on addictive behavior, though. Yes, but partly isn't it also kind of exciting when I see, like Jeremy said earlier, "I'm sitting in the dark jerking off and feeling gross afterward"? Why, though? I mean, isn't that also an opportunity to reflect on why I feel that way right now? Paula? I think what we are totally overlooking here is how lonely people are becoming. And the way Jeremy described it is a deeply sad experience. A man jerking off alone in his room is a sad figure in itself. Disconnected—not always, fundamentally—but in terms of frequency, disconnected from social experiences. And I believe that through social media and so on, which you all surely observe as well, we are driving ourselves more and more into isolation, or rather, into an inability to tolerate conflict at all. Relationships are hard work. Yes, and you have to learn to



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withstand the negative sides of someone. Jeremy, what's it like for you? I think a point you made is super important, which is: I believe pornography should always take place in addition to an actual sex life and an actual interpersonal relationship. I've spoken with many men—we also talk about this very openly on our podcast—and I've received many messages saying, "I'm quitting porn," and suddenly they're sitting at home having to imagine things, but then they realize they would actually like to manifest those imaginations. And what happens next is they enter the real dating market. And what happens when they enter the dating market? They actually meet a female or male partner. Which means, I would actually say porn consumption makes you lonely because you actively reduce the urge to approach people you find potentially attractive. Madita, the dose makes the poison... Wow, I've accumulated a lot. I know, I know. But stick to that, because we were just talking about availability, right? And... The dose does not make the poison; that doesn't apply either. The studies were mentioned earlier, but in my opinion, they weren't accurately represented. The scientist in me gets annoyed by that, especially because the prevalence numbers are missing. Right now, we are talking about an estimated 3 to 5 percent of adult men who develop a pornuse disorder, which is the technical term—it's not recognized as an addiction, it's classified as an impulse control disorder. This means that the vast majority of people do not develop a porn use disorder, even though they use porn regularly, sometimes daily. If we look at women, for example, who have a similarly high daily consumption—this group is smaller, but it exists—they still don't develop the same patterns because they don't use it to escape negative feelings, perhaps because they were socialized differently to form friendships, to seek therapy options,



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to regulate themselves emotionally in ways other than through porn. It becomes a problem when I use it to regulate myself, escape negative feelings, and then that loss of control sets in. Just like with other use disorders or addictions. Correct. In my opinion, a use disorder already exists—and it's not just five to seven percent—when you, as a man, are no longer able to get an erection because real life no longer provides enough stimulus. Yes. And when you, as a human being, are no longer able to connect with another person, both in bad times and in beautiful times. Well, there are diagnostic criteria, and that doesn't fall under them. There, we are talking about erectile dysfunction. That has a lot to do with how we train ourselves, what the rituals are. But that's window dressing. It all belongs to the same topic. No, I don't think so. That's precise language; they are simply different topic areas. Just because someone can't get it up doesn't mean porn is to blame. Maybe he's never even seen porn. You're eager to speak, but you were waiting earlier. Please, Thomas. What I want to bring in is that sexual therapy publications definitely show us that, in principle, erectile dysfunction used to be a problem for older men. And we clearly see that for the past ten years, the men are getting younger and younger. And then they describe to the sexual therapist that they simply can't get an erection anymore during real-life, analog sexual encounters. That is something that needs to be considered. But you are talking—and this must also be kept in mind—you are talking, of course, about the cases that end up with you. You aren't talking about the at least 80, maybe 90 percent of people who don't have a problem with it or don't develop a use disorder. No, of course not. I am a clinician and I am a psychotherapist, and that is my world. And I emphasize again, I at least want it to be considered: age, and again, when the drawer is still empty of analog experiences and I build my sexual identity, so to speak, on what I can see on the internet. I consider that a problem, and it remains a problem. And I wouldn't back down from that. Jona, you're swaying back and forth. So ten years... is it because of that? For example, porn was... okay, it has obviously increased due to the digital world, but porn was always somehow accessible back then too, like in shops or whatever. Today, it is available 24 hours a day, even for teenagers. The platforms don't ask for an ID card. Thirteen-year-olds are watching it. I have patients who tell me they got a smartphone at age ten. And they've been on those platforms ever since. One of them once told me, "Well, I know my way around there." And that was at 15. But we are still looking at an entire generation that we have already socialized with online pornography. We've had free online porn for almost 20 years now. The numbers on youth sexuality are super stable—so in many areas, the fears of the late 2000s didn't come true. We don't have premature sexual activity, we don't have more pregnancies, we have much safer contraceptive behavior than in the generation before. Many of these things did not materialize. Okay, let's move away from accessibility to the image of society and even women. Paula, you even say porn fuels the incels of this world, toxic men, and so on. What do you mean by that? What you said earlier, that you were already watching porn 20 years ago and so on. You have to look at the movies. There is a distinct content difference compared to today. My first porn was called Candy Goes to Hollywood. I had to watch it due to peer pressure. And I still remember, a woman shot out ping-pong balls—that was pretty much the craziest thing that happened. If you look at porn today—not all of it, of course, but a lot—things get significantly rougher. But there is also... At the same time, the age of onset for active sexuality is changing. And I interpret that as a consequence of people simply not daring enough to connect with one another, and perhaps consuming things instead. Out of conflict avoidance. It could happen, but it's an assumption.



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And that is exactly what the incel movement is: lived conflict avoidance and simultaneously shifting responsibility to a seemingly guilty group that doesn't guarantee them the life they think they are entitled to. That thought alone is perverse in itself—that everyone is entitled to something being a certain way. Jeremy wants to add something. Yeah, two things. First, I find it super fascinating that you talked about the ping-pong ball. My first porn—which was probably watched a bit after yours, I assume—was a lederhosen gangbang: 15 men, two women in the middle, everyone cumming on them, and that was naturally the "For You" page back then. And now, porn platforms are changing more and more. More towards swiping, and then AI—it's getting faster, louder, the porn industry is growing too, point one. Point two, we are talking about extreme examples right now, but I think porn does a very quiet kind of damage, a societal damage that isn't even necessarily captureable in a study. When I think about how porn harmed me, for example: I couldn't climax during sex until I was 20 years old, and I had my first time at 14. Madita can answer now... You walked relatively far to the back. Yeah, because... various points, including that the porn industry is flourishing. Actually, the internet wasn't particularly good for the



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porn industry; a lot of studios are closing. It's very hard to make money with porn unless you happen to be in the top one percent of OnlyFans creators. As for you personally, again, I can't deny your experience, nor do I want to. I just find it interesting because there's a different way to read it. Because I would say, for example... Isn't it great when people are so satisfied through solo sexuality that they aren't dependent on other people, so that they don't enter into toxic relationships just to get sexual satisfaction there? Why toxic? Because, well, there are simply a lot of relationships that only happen because people are looking for satisfaction in them that they could get elsewhere. There was a time before porn when everyone had egalitarian sex, everyone communicated. It was healthy and beautiful. Nobody felt pressure, nobody had norm expectations. Everyone freely discovered what they liked. And then porn came along and broke it, ruined it. I'm exaggerating cynically now, but of course we never had that state. We've always had norm expectations, we have tons of performance pressure. We have images of masculinity without having seen a single porn. And for me, porn is simply a mirror of society. Sure, there is sexism and racism in it, because they shape our society and this medium comes out of it. But they didn't invent it. Gabi, the accusation against the porn industry isn't new—that images of women are conveyed that can be questionable at best, at least in mainstream porn. Meaning, the woman as an object of desire just so the man can come quickly. Because that's the world. And what we translate into art—anyone can say whether porn is art or not, to me it is art—art comes from society and is a mouthpiece. And if we find dynamics in a medium, it's because they come from society.



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And I want to address the topic of women. Ever since I started working in the porn industry, and in the erotic industry in general, and in sex work, I have never felt so in touch with my own sexuality, and for instance, I felt more sexualized in my life before I worked in porn. Alongside my studies, I worked in small offices, helping to organize congresses, and who had to push the food around at the congress and bring the coffee cups while I was a co-organizer? Not my colleague, not my male colleague—me. And then, I own it, then I seize the power to show my vulva somehow. And I get a lot of appreciation, and I also feel seen as an artist by people in the erotic industry. Right, you are talking about the camera set now; I was talking about the virtually conveyed image that goes out to the public. Yes, but I think it's very important to hear that. But it's a totally interesting standpoint. I have a lot of questions, but so do I. Jeremy, you were first, I think. I think it's fascinating—first of all, I think it's important to talk on a personal level just now. It's completely fine that you do it, I would say. And you're basically saying you're happier than ever with your sexuality, you feel more connected than ever with your sexuality. But you don't watch porn either. My connection to porn is that I am an actor in it. Exactly, that's different. But I still want to jump back in from the consumer perspective, because there are super many women, myself included, who also saw in porn, "Ah, there is a woman who has desire, who screams loudly, who is allowed to have desire, who is desired, who also dictates what is happening here"—so we have a very simplified view of the content. The most popular porn category of all time worldwide is Lesbian Porn. True, those are straight women staging lesbian sex for straight men, let's not fool ourselves. But there is no gender dynamic to be seen on the screen. The second most popular category is the MILF. So the sexual experience of women is fetichized. We can always say, "Yeah, primarily for a male gaze and it's a pleasure object," I won't take that away, but to say that it's always just about women being beaten and degraded simply doesn't correspond to the diversity of the



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content, not even in the mainstream segment. It can absolutely be a place where I learn, "I am allowed to be sexually active as a woman," because our current image of women is still that I am devalued through sexuality. I am not allowed to just have pleasure apart from reproduction and relationship work. And that's why masturbating to porn is also empowering for me. As a woman, saying, "I'm allowed to do this just for me, for nobody else," and also seeing women in porn who just want it can be liberating—it doesn't have to be, but it can. Jeremy stepped forward, Paula may speak. Yes, sure, what we see also becomes normalized. In that respect, it's obviously good that women are finally perceived as sexual beings too. But I think you all contradict yourselves relatively often. You, Gabi, said it's an art form for you. Art in human history has always been there to move society forward. I think I make porn... Exactly, I don't believe that, because there is feminist porn and so on. A lot of it apparently doesn't cater to mass taste. But I think it's too easy to say, "That's just how it is. Society is like that. That's why we go faster, higher, further." No, there is movement. But there is movement in how we produce porn. Exactly. Exactly, yeah. Diversity, so much! Exactly, leaving aside the production conditions, but in terms of content, I recognize that now. You don't watch enough porn. Neither do you. Yes, I do, I watch porn professionally, I work at Beate Uhse TV and I always check what new releases we have. And there are horror movies with an endless storyline where the monster then with the girl... there is so beautifully made porn. But saying it only depicts one thing is simply false. Just because a monster is in it doesn't mean the perspective changes significantly. The woman as an object to be sexualized is still central. It's just a fact. And when you say



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you find analog relationships weird somehow... I didn't say that, I just think we romanticize analog relationships and analog sex. I consider it to be much more problem-ridden and violent than we often talk about, as an ideal image contrasted with digital sex. I believe... with all the crap happening out there in the world, it is incredibly important for us as humans to move away from this over-digitalization back to the analog. Absolutely. Contact, exchange, enduring things. I think Thomas will fundamentally agree anyway, knowing you. But we are currently on the question: can porn have negative societal impacts, let's say, regarding the image of women, for example? What do your patients say? I notice in the discussion that we might need to be more precise in our language. Of course, pornography doesn't have an impact on bonding, but the research situation is clear. The consumption of pornography leads to poorer relationship sexuality and to poorer relationship quality. Only for straight men; for women, the results are exactly opposite, and for homosexual partners too. And do you at least find it problematic when you say here, "Well, pornography is justified because people would otherwise live in toxic relationships"? As a psychotherapist, I would always say, if people need pornography to avoid toxic relationships, they should come to me and look at their patterns to see why they can't avoid toxic relationships. And I think that's great. That would be the more sustainable problem solution than escaping. And that's why I don't consider it legitimate to practically avoid toxic relationships by practicing porn consumption. And even justifying it with that. Madita just wants to place the experience ahead of what we think we have to achieve. She just wants to listen to people; maybe the people who prefer to live out their sexuality better with themselves—maybe they are happier on their path than if they think, due to societal pressure, "I need a relationship because that's the only place I get sex." Yes, but I'm telling you, I deal with the aftermath when you talk about societal pressure. I also see the young men who have watched porn and then say, "I can't deliver that anyway," and then they don't even dare go there. But if I see someone performing something better than me, that creates pressure. But the world doesn't have to protect me from seeing that someone is better or more potent sometimes. That's just how it is. And then we have to look at how we talk about it. That's not true. I've been on many porn sets and watched what happens, which is quite an experience as an outsider, but the people weren't necessarily more potent. Obviously, that comes on top. Obviously, but what you say, that's exactly what people orient themselves by. But if we look at Hollywood movies, we completely don't care when someone is on Wall Street with those... and then we don't care whether he's somehow better or richer. But Hollywood movies aren't consumed to distract from personal problems, for example. Well, but the point—if I may try to compromise—I believe you aren't actually that far apart from each other. There are different things in society that can generate pressure because you see someone who is better, who is more beautiful, who is... advertising, movies, porn too. The question is, how do we handle it? Yes, by talking to each other live. But that is such a privileged view, because I think—if we had someone here who comes from queer youth work, for example, then that person would tell us about the trans people who found themselves for the first time in porn, about all the queer biographies that had no opportunities to express themselves analogly before their outer coming out and found contacts online. Who can understand themselves, discover themselves through porn. That is truly identity work happening there. And telling them, "Just go out into the world and make real contact with real people"... The fundamental problem remains the same, though. Briefly, Paula, sorry, sorry, because Jeremy walked to the front and was already raising his hand, you go ahead. Yeah, I just agree. For me, it's more about society as a whole and the people who have big problems with it. That's my point, and I don't find it reprehensible at all if someone who is queer sees trans sex for the first time or is trans and didn't dare to approach anyone in the real world before. Completely legitimate. But that doesn't excuse us from the responsibility of ensuring that we, as a whole society, simply talk more with one another and more sensibly, and I just think porn keeps us from doing that rather than having a positive effect there. At least we have to talk about it. I think we've exchanged a lot. I wonder, what now? My only concern is that we take better care of children, teenagers, and young adults, and that we develop concepts. How do you develop healthy sexuality, and where does the internet interfere? So from my perspective, that's more of a societal problem as a whole. Like this ban currently being discussed, for example, of social media from a certain age and so on. I'm not actually a fan of bans, but I see the helplessness of parents and I see the daily consumption of far too young people who are supposed to find their natural sexuality that way. And there, I do believe certain limitations are needed and that this belongs in the concept. As part of a larger concept. As part of a larger concept. Yes. Madita? I wish for sexual education that takes over what porn currently takes over for so many young people. I would say we've exchanged a lot, let's move into the compromise round. Yes, what would you say? Do you have a compromise proposal? How do these two groups get closer to each other? Let us know in the comments. Team Green, how do you bring the Yellows closer to you? Well, we offer you neatly structured educational work—I'll take responsibility for that too—and I would find it... we would find it good if that were then really strongly subsidized by the state. And the second thing we offer would be that we perhaps really sustainably try to raise the threshold of access for under-18s as best as possible, or rather, establish it as best as possible. So some kind of regulation, a threshold, and more state-funded educational work. And you stepped forward for that. And do you think any of you came forward? Yes. Madita didn't? Why? I don't believe in regulation; I think in the digital age, that's a naive concept and it's always a retreat from responsibility. What did you want to say? I would say, I would hope so, but I don't believe it will be that way because it simply won't work, but I can still hope. You're allowed to hope anyway. It's just a proposal. Nice. What is your proposal? On our side, we had, for example, that definitely more should be taught in schools on the topic of sexuality, because it's just... it's just a fact that there is very, very little in schools on the topic. Plus also the topic of sexual media, that people are educated more about that too. We had a second component because we think it's not just about children and youth centrally, but it's actually also centrally about masculinity, especially straight masculinity. And we ask ourselves—but it's difficult to develop a concept—what could there be that really meets you halfway in terms of strengthening relationships, strengthening communication? So basically, men's coaches who aren't pick-up artists and don't carry all that baggage forward, but how can we really break with that so that a successful sexuality can be shaped and porn doesn't have to be the escape. There is a lot to do, but you've made a few suggestions. Thank you very much, we must expect everything, even the good. Thank you. Those were 13 Questions.